talkclacton.myfastforum.org

HarwichLad · Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 8

Just to let you know I put a link on the clacton.tv thread to this site only for someone to edit the link and put a crafty full stop in it stopping it redirecting.

I think someone may well be feeling threatened by freedom of speech!

I've changed it back to the correct link but it may be worth keeping an eye on it admin

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

Thanks for that Harwich Lad.

EssexGurl · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 222

Oh thats not a nice thing to do. Norty man!!!!

admin · Site Admin Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 92

Hi Harwich Lad

Thanks for letting us know about that. Smile

Hey thanks for the link in the first place!!

I'll make sure I keep a watch on it. Don't have to log in to see it do you?

It's interesting behaviour as DC was consulted for some paper about Power and Citizenship. He gave evidence to say that he believes MPs should 'let go'. Laughing

He apparently thinks people should have more involvement, more power etc etc. Rolling Eyes

yadda yadda yadda as they say.

I'll try and find it and post it up here (not the whole paper, just his bit)

admin · Site Admin Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 92

Here's that evidence our MP gave to the Independent Inquiry into Britain's democracy.

He says he thinks we, the people, should have more power.

How it must be hurting him to have to edit all those posts on his forum. Wink

Evidence Submitted on

Local Democracy

Power; An Independent Inquiry Into Britain's Democracy

Douglas Carswell MP: If I was to sum up what localism, direct democracy is, it’s
pushing power down to the individual where possible, in the town hall where that’s
not possible and there are different ways of devolving power. The town hall is always
where it’s best to devolve power to, in the case of education I would go a step further
and I would have a locally administered scheme where every parent in the country
will have a legal right to request and receive their share of town hall funding, it would
be [unclear] directive, clearly you can’t have similar consumerist model when you’re
talking about policing, you’ve got to have a form of collective control, I would do that
outside the town hall altogether there, have a separate directly elected chair who
would be allocated to their budget from the town hall but who’d have powers
completely separate from and independent from the town hall, so it’s not all about
pushing power to the town hall. In a prescription of our publication we talk about
devolving power to the town hall, financial autonomy for the town hall as a first step
85
towards this broader local agenda. When we first looked at the problem in
2002/2003 we had a whole series of proposals for devolving power, we didn’t
consider local finance, since then we’ve published a separate [unclear] form
localising local government finance, making the town halls self financing, in this latest
publication we’ve married the two ideas together, [unclear]. Letting go from this
place means, I think, that you would give town halls, and I can’t give you a definitive
list now, but give town halls control over funding, pretty much all the function that the
office of the Deputy Prime Minister currently is responsible for, you would give town
halls control over personal social services, they could administer those because they
would be self financing, you could even go further and say that certain elements of
welfare, that are currently run as national programmes, could be localised and I think
that would be very exciting and it’s something we haven’t really worked on yet, if you
localise [unclear] over welfare I think you could get some really exciting innovation
[unclear] in the United States welfare programmes that actually help the recipient
rather than become a form of dependency, the key to it, first of all, accepting that
town halls will become as self-financing as possible.
I’m with Simon Jenkins on this, earned autonomy, it’s absurd, how can you own
autonomy, I will let you do what you want provided that you, first of all, agree to do
what I want, it’s absurd. Local democracy is not about giving your town hall stars for
being good boys and girls, it’s about politicians letting go, [unclear] will be
consequences, there will be town halls that put up their taxes and don’t deliver
services, the discipline, and it will require an iron discipline to start with, the discipline
with the party that implements this has got to find will be when things go wrong
locally, we will have to have the discipline to say, wait four years, wait five years, and
it will be fascinating to know what the world would look like today if Thatcher, in the
80s, had refused to cap [?] local government and had said, uh, uh, you live with the
consequences of voting the way you voted, difficult to do but I hope not impossible,
big bang, I’m in favour of the big idea, my reason quite simple, if an incoming
Government comes in with a programme, left wing, right wing, whatever serves the
party events come along, I would like to see far reaching programme implemented
early on and get on with it. Politicians will always find excuses not to devolve power,
their instinct will be to hang on, we’d need to be very, very disciplined about it.

Karl Duguid · Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 36

The thing you have to remember is that everyone - be it the Standard, MP or anyone on this forum - has to comply with the laws of libel.

Freedom of speech is one thing, but only if it's legal! That's why certain posts have to be edited, as they will have to be on this forum from time to time.

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

John Karl,
It looks, from your statement, that you would reply to all that does not breach the laws of libel, and this as we have seen, can be misleading.

Karl Duguid · Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 36

EssexGurl · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 222

If thats the case then surely a simple word in the ear of the poster would help. Theres nothing more annoying finding your posts deleted and not a word as to why. If nobody says anything then it looks like posts have been deleted just because they arent saying what the moderator likes. And whats to stop the original poster making the same mistake over and over......

admin · Site Admin Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 92

John Karl

The post we are talking about in this particular thread is the one Harwich Lad started the thread with. He posted up in the other forum a notice to Suffolk Punch to say this forum existed if Suffolk Punch (who was complaining in that forum about the editing there) wanted a forum which was truly democractic with real freedom of speach. He also (very boldly) pasted a link there to this forum. Surprised

As libel is a law protecting individuals from printed attack that is substantially untrue and defamatory, I can't see what it could possibly have to do with editing a link to this forum so that the link no longer works but redirects users back to the other forum instead.

Nothing to do with libel at all, is it?

Now if you are referring to other instances of editing, then I cannot think of any that I saw posted on the other forum which contained anything libellous (and I mean prior to edits). I did see one containing many incisive and pertinent questions about the state of our beaches. I saw another containing questions about a story which Douglas Carswell had picked up from your paper. That was merely widening the debate on an issue of using human waste as crop manure. Where is the opportunity for libel in those?

But both the posts I am referring to were edited or deleted completely. Mad

Whilst it is a possibility, though not a probabililty, that some of the posts we never saw as they were never validated, were libellous in some way or form, surely if that were the case we'd have heard from one another about that content? After all someone would have written it and most of us know each other so, nom de plumes or not, news spreads. Smile

And to misquote Voltaire, I may not approve of what people in the forum here say but I will defend to the death their right to say it. Exclamation

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

EssexGurl · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 222

frankie · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 88 Location: clacton

i came on this forum after being kicked off the other site for posting something the moderator didnt like and now it looks like seafront resident has gone the same way for saying the mp didnt care and was only interested in big towns for the votes.i dont know, and it would be helpful if someone could tell me, whether taxpayers money being spent for what looks like an extension to his website is appropriate ,as soon as you say anything critical you are kicked off.

Lin · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 533 Location: Gt Clacton

I had a bit of a problem finding this site by using the link on the other site ,eventually just googled myfastforum and did a search for clacton.
Still a bit annoyed by being called a bad citizen and not a human being on the other side but hey ,according to Official Talk Clacton thats ok ,moderators can insult all and sundry but if normal bods dare to question any claims then be prepared to be insulted.
I have passed on details of how to get to this site to others as the link on OTC seems to have been tampered with again.
Thanks for providing a Balanced ,Unbiased site with freedom of speech ........at last ,a breath of fresh air.....

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

[quote="frankie"]i came on this forum after being kicked off the other site for posting something the moderator didnt like and now it looks like seafront resident has gone the same way for saying the mp didnt care and was only interested in big towns for the votes.i dont know, and it would be helpful if someone could tell me, whether taxpayers money being spent for what looks like an extension to his website is appropriate ,as soon as you say anything critical you are kicked off.

frankie, it seems to me we could be making assumptions about the taxpayers money, after all I am advised this site is run voluntarily. However you could direct your question to Douglas.

Now we are on a non-restricted site what about returning to my previous question, on the same tack, to you on Golden Arrow?

ivan burit

hiya all, sorry if i cannot spell, but i still love ya, well most of ya....lol...i have put a question on "another" site or two, asking whats going on in jaywicks future, by way of the long awaited option 4 (its a long story...lo..) but, i also put in a bit about posts going missing, and having making a copy for further media coverage if it "disappears"....will wait for the nasty red comments to go to see what happens to it....cheers all, ivan.b.
_________________
In truth we seek,In truth we learn,In Tendering,We get neither..

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

Lin said,
"Still a bit annoyed by being called a bad citizen"

DM has received a response from a person that might be of the same age quite a well balanced reply. Thinks the subscribers advice to Danny was spot on.

Lin · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 533 Location: Gt Clacton

For Ivan
Gust becos I culd not spel
It did not mene I wuz daft
Wen the boiz in skool red my riting
Sum of them laffed

But now I is the diktator
Thems ave to rite like me
uverwize thems canot pass
There GCSE

Sum of the girls wer ok
But them hoo laffed a lot
Ave all bean rownded up
and ave recently bean shot

The teecher who crekted me spellin
As not bean shot at all
But four the last fifeten howers
As bean standin
aginst the wall

He as to stand ther until he can spel
Figgymisgigitfonism the rite way
I finks he will be their forever
I's only inventid it today

Cheer up Ivan ,your only trouble is ,fingers move faster than you fink
You make me laugh and are a ray of sunshine
Do you think we are still in the naughty corner ,regards Frinton Laughing

Sorry about going waay off topic.
Lin

frankie · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 88 Location: clacton

i know this site is run voluntarily but the other site is funded by the Incidental Expenses Provision of the House of Commons,well that is what is written at the bottom of the home page.
the only link i have to harwich is that my father was born there so to be honest i dont know everything that goes on there obviously i get the clacton gazette not the standard so i dont get to read about it either.
about GA if you ask me a specific question i will do my homework and get back to you as i dont know enough about it,hope that is ok.

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

frankie,
Iv'e cut and pasted these pages from The Squirrels thread. Have a read and log onto the GA site see what you make of it all.

amenity
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08,:26 pm

Ivan admits to being amazed.

From The Standard this wekend

"Leaflets amaze me

AS a resident of East Central
ward, I am amazed by the
leaflet being put out by the
Conservative candidates
ahead of May's local elections.
In it, the Tory candidates thank the local Conservatives for campaigning against the sale of Squirrels.
Would they be the same local Conservatives who are responsible for selling Squirrels in the first place?
Having waited until Squirrels had been sold before surveying residents about whether or not they wanted the sale to go ahead, the local Tories are now asking us to congratulate them for complaining about their own decision.
I totally disagree with the manner in which the Conservative leader of Tendring District Council (TDC), Terry Allen, is running our district.
I must say, however, that he does not hide from the decisions that he takes and he accepts responsibility for the actions of his Conservative-led administration.
I believe it is time for the Conservative candidates in East Central ward to show similar courage. After all, they are seeking to join Terry Allen's Tories on TDC in next May's local elections. IVAN HENDERSON Labour's Parliamentary spokesman for the region, Dovercourt."

Noholdsbarred
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13,:10 am

Having read Ivan Henderson’s letter “Leaflets amaze me” to the Standard.

I am provoked to give an opinion.

I see in this letter the authentic hand of ‘New Labour’ an indelible
deftness of touch.

Ivan worked very closely and publicly with TDC in their support for
the proposal by Hutchison Whampoa to construct a port at Bathside
Bay, showing undivided loyalty to supporters of that scheme.

With the local MP supporting the developers, who was there to voice the
concerns of local residents about the plans? Was it Ivan, then our
MP, or did he leave that responsibility to others?

I am saddened to say Ivan Henderson’s letter has all the hallmarks of
inebriate thinking displayed by the local New Labour, but I am not a
voting Conservative. Is there another choice?

And to conclude isn’t it about time Ivan, one time self-proclaimed
Socialist, shed some light on his association with Golden Arrow and
how long he has held that position? And how does he marry those
loyalties with his duties as ‘Labour's Parliamentary spokesman for
the region, Dovercourt’?

EssexGurl

Whats golden arrow?

Whats the betting that that letter wasnt even written by Ivan.

frankie the link to GA http://www.goldenarrowcomms.com/

frankie · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 88 Location: clacton

i have to admit i did vote for him at the last election,did the bathside bay project surface before he was a mp?, dont all former mps work for lobby firms.he did support the prjoect before he left parliament and i dont suppose he expected to lose the election so as far as i can make out he wasnt supporting the project to get himself a job. i know i dont live in harwich but i think its good for the local economy as a whole,i know thats not fair on people who live in harwich.do you support it. i know thats not much of an answer but i dont know enough about it

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 775 Location: Dovercourt

Frankie,
From memory it was 1997 when someone wrote(the letter is in public domain) to Canning Fok (Hutchison Whampoa chief accountant at that time) asking him to invest in BB, how much IH new of this I'm not sure but the author and Ivan are closely linked in other ways.
Maybe your assertion/question that "dont all former mps work for lobby firms" has some truth in it but I have not seen it. However I am sure that IH would realise that working for this firm GA now might compromise his position later on so maybe Essex Gurl is right (if I understand her correctly)when she opines that he may not stand again for this area.
With regard to the benifit to the area, lets be honest, that is not the reason any commercial enterprise is undertaken and a simple examination of history and geography will highlight that point.
A radical reappraisal of our imports might benifit the economy but just importing more does not in itself look very promising.

frankie · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 88 Location: clacton

ivan burit · Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject:

Lin · Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 533 Location: Gt Clacton

I have read that poem to each of my children and their children .I hope it makes them think that there is more to a person than their ability to spell.
Any luck with the tractor seat!!!
Now I promise to stay on topic .

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