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amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 758 Location: Dovercourt

Are these people right??

Have Your Say: The Green Tax Revolt

More than seven in 10 voters insist that they would not be willing to pay higher taxes in order to fund projects to combat climate change, according to a new poll released to coincide with the local elections. How can British people be persuaded that green taxes are a vital weapon in the fight against climate change? Let us know what you think.

Posted at 01:53 AM in Have Your Say | Permalink
Comments

“Carbon Footprint my foot”: the voice of the masses

Today, BP announced it is withdrawing its commitment to build the largest Wind-Farm plan programme. And it is not only the big companies that respond their dissatisfaction to the green-policies. There are as this article has suggested many people, who are not happy at all with climate-change, global warming, and green-taxes.

It is very possible that these polices are truly intended to raise cash and have now started to backfire. No matter what political parties these suggestions come from, they will cause havocs and discontents in long term.

Charity starts at Home!
I (as many others) am not against improving our ways of life toward taking much more environmentally friendly actions. However, these policies wouldn’t be working for many obvious reasons.

Firstly, the government policy on green-policies ought to be advisory, not legislative.

Secondly, the main objections for any government should be tacking poverty, equal opportunities for all, providing well paid jobs, training, affordable and well standard housing (to buy and rent), decent safe reliable and affordable national health, free education at every level, securing national safety by introducing and implementing law and order, modernising and improving internal structures, controlling and limiting the private enterprises massive and irresponsible power in turning the country to recession and depression, control the borders, providing decent pension for all elders, in order to save ever increasing impoverish Britain.

Posted by: Mack, London, England, UK | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 02:55 AM

One could make a case for taxing new gas guzzlers heavily, to discourage people from buying them. But to tax old cars at the same high rate makes no environmental sense at all. The cynical exploitation of the unsuspecting motorist has been exposed.

Posted by: Mike Davidson | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 03:01 AM

Good Heavens!! I am astounded!! "Taxpayers express no wish to pay more!", eh??

More upcoming stories from the Indy

# Boiling water "best" for making tea

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Posted by: Neil McGowan | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 04:22 AM

I try to live on the right side of the argument. Coming to retirement we are moving to a smaller house; uprating the insulation, redesigning the lighting,etc etc.
I am very happy & willing to reduce my energy use, recycle, and any number of other small contributions to the cause.
BUT while the government is wasting tax money on such unjustifiable projects as ID Cards, aircraft carriers, war in Iraq, and evermore surveillance, I won't endorse a "get out of hock free card" disguised as a green tax.

Posted by: Ralph | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 04:25 AM

So people will have the opinion, to hell with the planet and wildlife, as long as i enjoy ALL the benefits of a modern lifestyle.
It's called rank greed and apathy.

Posted by: alan reid | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 04:46 AM

The problem with politicians is that they are too idealistic in this particular matter.
It is like to say if you don’t have bread eat cakes.

Posted by: Simon | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 06:14 AM

The world is facing a global energy crisis. To get the problem under control we need serious financial commitment and we need to get everyone on board. Green taxes are inadequate for the job and socially divisive to boot. As Ralph (4.25 AM) has already suggested, the government seem to have plenty of cash available for warfare and the police state. They also seem to have huge piles of cash available for bailing out criminally irresponsible financial institutions.

The current food vs biofuel crisis should be a wake up call to our species. We started off with an enormous fund of natural capital, we seem to have spent our way through the best half of it already, either we turn the situation around or we crash. So do we want electricity or do we want identity cards, surveillance cameras and Trident missiles? Not a difficult choice really!

Posted by: Mark Underwood | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 06:50 AM

If you ask people whether they will pay higher taxes, the answer is usually no.

Meanwhile, rather than adopt a long term programme, say on renewable energy, that wins support by yielding tangible gains (new industries, employment etc) and reinforces support for further action, as in Germany, what we get in the UK is speeches, frameworks for action, the odd tax here and there, and schemes whose complexity is high and which come and go with remarkable speed.

No wonder people end up cynical...and bewildered!

Posted by: Nicholas | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 07:10 AM

Whatever may be said, those in power want, first and foremost, to stay there. And you don't do that by running against the will of those who vote.

After their performance of late, I am not expecting much from the incumbents.

Of course, other than poorly thought-out and possibly plain daft enviROI- tax-or headline-grabbing tinkering that just irritates or puts folk off anything that is billed as 'green'. Like they have worked so well, so far.

Green campaigners are right to be dismayed, but many (not all) also need to look to themselves as well for way too many petty, self-serving Planet Ban-it campaigns, especially on trivial issues.

And with hard-working folk under ever more pressures on time and income, the sheer number of fund-draining initiatives... and personnel... being imposed on the tax/ratepayer or donor by government, LAs, quangos, and activist groups, is looking like a heck of a burden to carry in the face of difficult to comprehend, and still very poorly communicated (despite multi-million £ comms budgets) climatic times.

An awful lot of folk saying an awful lot of things and very little being DONE to actually derive many worthwhile, end-benefit results that folk can relate to. Or TRUST. When it comes to much that of necessity involves effort or cost in less than fun ways - like reduction or mitigation - it's not easy, but the current lot don't seem to be doing it very well... as these findings would suggest.

I do not however imagine seeing a reduction in the green-tosh/wash/scare/target/nanny/offset industries, etc and all the associated 'green hangers-on' (inc. many in the media, who often jaunt, irony free, to Bali at the drop of a conference to decry unnecessary jaunting) anytime soon.

Posted by: Peter | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 07:36 AM

I am not surprised by this poll, nobody believes that any government has the interests of the population as a whole; the low turnout in the local elections confirms that.

If the government was really interested in reducing carbon emmissions they should encourage energy saving by reducing, or even removing, tax on energy saving products such as insulation, light bulbs, solar heating etc.

However that would give less revenue for the energy companies and hence less money in corporate taxes. So the answer is as usual to use tax as a weapon and make sure the coffers are full to pay for wars and bail out the banks, while paying lip service to the green movement.

Posted by: Chris Norman | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 07:50 AM

The whole point of charging 4 x 4s in central London is to reduce LOCAL air pollution rather than minimise global pollution. The same tax should be levied against all HGVs moving through central London, too.

Posted by: richard Longridge | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 08:04 AM

Unfortunately the Goverment have made themselve's 'bullet proof' for every issue, for at least 4 years in power.
Every public authority is accountable for its actions, under the Human Rights Act 1998. All accept the power that enacted it, the labour party. You can sue Police, Courts, Local Authorities, Hospitals, Schools but not the
HOUSES OF PARLIMENT OR ANY PERSON EXCERCISING FUNTIONS IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR PROCEEDINGS.
Russia, China, Cuba eat your heart out or maybe its just same,same.

Posted by: Pete | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 08:34 AM

No one likes taxes - what is new?

Cap and dividend instead. Oil, coal, gas companies bid for the right to sell a limited (and decreasing) amount of fossil fuels. The humungous amount of money raised (not a tax!) is redistributed to the people (probably equal per capita, keep it simple). Fossil-fuel intensive stuff would cost a lot more. Overall, people who consume less (i.e., poorer people) and those choosing less fossil-fuel intensive products and services would all be better off. No new tax, just an effective market.

This is such an obvious vote-winner, why is no politician promoting it?

Posted by: Nigel | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 08:35 AM

This doesn't surprise me in the least. We see well off people with their 4x4s coming from the cities to the country, to escape from the rat race,the noise, dirt and crowding. Yet they resolutely refuse to change and adapt to fit in to their new way of life, expecting the local way of life to change to suit them.

Posted by: flipped | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 08:38 AM

The way I see it is, we wouldn't need higher taxes if people just stopped being so bloody minded and were sensible, if they did things themselves the government would not need to put in place schemes to help the planet (although I am not so sure this is why they are doing it).

Nobody needs a gas guzzling 4X4 it is just a status symbol, one that is leading to the slow and painful death of this planet and the people on it.

It doesn't take much to reduce your carbon foot print and if the vote is true, it just shows how little we care about future generations and the fact they could be living in a dust bowl or frozen wastelands for a planet and have no quality of life at all.

If the taxes are introduced people will have no choice but to pay them.

Life with taxes will be far more livable.

Lack of oil, car or food doesn't bother myself or my family because we have things in place to cope with these things, we have been lowering our carbon foot print for many years, are we living in destitution no, we are not, it is as simple as not leaving all the lights, computers and electrical appliances on, growing your own vegetables not using the car to pop round to the corner shop which is well in walking distance, using public transport at every opportunity and walking, most people seem to have forgotten how to walk, which is also a shame because you miss so much of what is going on around you in nature, the very nature some people are destroying, and putting people like me and others who are doing their utmost to help this planet in danger.

So to the 1 in 10 people who are too lazy, selfish and ignorant. I say, thank God we aren't all like you.

Posted by: Ann Beirne | Friday, 02 May 2008 at 08:48 AM

It has been too late ever since Maggie's doctrine of "responsibility only for self" was propounded [and seemingly fully accepted] years ago. If there is "no community, merely individuals" there can be no expectation of "mucking in" and helping the people of the planet to survive! In words culled from Dad's Army [which also couldn't exist today, for the same reason], "We're Doooomed, we're aarll Doooomed!"

ivan burit · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:24 am Post subject:

"One could make a case for taxing new gas guzzlers heavily, to discourage people from buying them. But to tax old cars at the same high rate makes no environmental sense at all. The cynical exploitation of the unsuspecting motorist has been exposed".

Taxing vehicles according to age does not really work, in fact the Government has in place the very opposite, and quite rightly so.

1:- if you are of an illness in which it enables you and your family to recieve Disability Living Allowance (DLA) at the higher rate, your grant to fund a vehilcle of your choice can and most often is as huge a vehicle that can be driven, including 4 x 4s and multi seat people carriers.
when you see some of the weekend tourists who arrive with up to 2 year old vehicles, and you look at the occupents, then what they arrive in, it "makes you wonder"
then go casually look at the vehicles tax disk and it will say -road tax = NIL = Disabled.. no matter how HUGE or small the vehicle is.

2:- Go save the planets resouces by buying an already manufactored vehilce, one that has had many owners already, but still able to take you and your family to and from your travels with a bit of style.
you can do this in any size of car / van / lorry/ buss, even jeep and tank if you so wish, for almost free.?.?
Purchase a pre 1973 vehicle and its taxation class will be marked as "historic" no matter what engine it has, and is rated at ZERO.......
Its TAX is FREE.........just like the ones on DVLA funded gas guzzlers.
Unlike the DVLA gas guzzlers, whose insurance is also FREE, you will have to insure your Historic vehicle, but, and a big but, if you have a weeny tiny 1st car that you drive, with an engine the size of my scooter, thats insurance is a few quid a week, your 2nd (historic) vehicle qualifies for 2nd vehicle discount, with limited mileage agreement with insurers for about £80 per year FULLY COMPREHENSIVE.

Motoring for less than cheeper than chips......and with so much fun too..
_________________
Hear no Evil, Speak no Evil,
....... listen to no Devil......

WE NEED LEADERS THAT LEAD,
...NOT LEADERS BEING LED...

amenity · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 758 Location: Dovercourt

Not normally given to amazement I am this time. Must get myself a small engined first car. Suppose I could leave it in the garage Ivan? What sort of mileage is limited?

I working on this.

ivan burit · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject:

Ok, most "classic" car policies require you specify your estimated anual milage.
we normally chose about 6,000 miles, this gives lots of fun miles, normally during the summer time.
If you are carefull, you can spread it over the year though, if your cheap as chips classic is MOT`d, its taxed, and insured for the year so why not...
If you have ever loved motoring from the early `70s and before, its your chance to do it again.
If you simply hated early motoring, look at the more upmarket of classics, that come with the leather/ walnut interiour, auto gearboxes and power steering.
A nice Rover p5b does it for me, or even a Rolls Royce..(both are still being destroyed as banger racing cars) but still nice ones left.
The other end of the scale is old Fords that never die.....just love `em
i`ve had Ford Anglias with the slanty back window and pointy rear lights.
My son has had a few V Ws, cars, busses and campers..querky motoring..
My neighbour has had an 1950`s Austin A30 bubble of a car, has now got a 1960`s baby blue Triumph Spitfire soft top, AND rebuilding a 1956 Ford Consul saloon...(but just taken delivery of a brand new Mercedes A150) for when its raining....lol...
amenity, cars, bikes and scoots are "my" thing in life....
Cars - i`ve raced them, mended them, worked them as Cabs.
I have dislikes and loves all with 4 or more wheels.
I love my old Honda Legend, but quite happily drive our Mondeo Diesel estate.

2006 i had a massive Mercedes 300se that i entered into the Walton Classic Car Show, brillient car, black leather interiour, silver coachwork, but sold it on as you do, my son showed his hippy style VW camper van, and he sold that on too.

2007 we were short of a car to show at Walton, so, we sprayed an old LADA saloon to look like the Blues Brothers American Police car, just for the joke of it all.
So many people took photos of it, DREAM Radio loved it too...
I made fake blue / red roof lights with 12 volt spotlights in the ends, all screwed to the roof, a working C B radio with huge boot mounted ariel, front windscreen piller spotlights just for looks, and a photo copied Mount Prospect Police department door badges stuck on with clear sticky back plastic....
This old plain Lada was purchased for £150 on the quick when my old faithfull BMW E30 touring went "sick" on me.
We used this genuine 27,000 mile Lada Russian car for a year untill its MOT ran out, it was crude, basic and rattled, but.
we abused it towing trailors, stormed flooded roads, drove it to Lee-over - Sands down one of the worst unmade roads in Tendring, let it go along on tick over in 1st gear and it was as if it was made for it..(it was) and its heater would cook food if you let it.........lol.
It was brillient on petrol, drove faster than i will tell you, NEVER used oil, always started, never got too hot in the hottest of traffic jams.....so sad to see it go to the scrap man, but filled with metal scrap out of the shed, gave us back £90 and its 4 wheels, the new tow bar, and its big battery......A years motoring for £60 minus.....(cheap as chips)

I drove my neighbours Smart car back from lincolnshire, now that is a querky car, but easy to drive, and well nippy in traffic, and supprisingly lots of room for 2 inside (even me)

Ask me the best car i`d like to own...
OK, money...how much to spend.
1:- a genuine Ford Cobra in dark blue with white stripe along the centre line, a 427 cubic inch high output V8 engine, chrome wheels, side bars and roll over bars.
A massively anti social car if ever was built, but it sounded and went soooo goood.
2:- a Ford MK 2 Zephyr convertible with power hood like i owned when i was 17 years old. 3 speed columb change gear box to play with.. from 15 mph to 80 mph all in top gear...
3:- still love my Ford Anglias i have owned...Querky cars that made me smile, i raced them as Hot Rods when massively modified..(had one or two on the road too).....B I G smiles from me....lol..
4:- belive it or not, i also like old Ford Transits and Rover Sherpa vans and caravans...(we have a coach built sherpa Highwayman camper van too).
5:- for the wifey... she had a yellow Mk 4 Triumph Spitfire for 8 years when the kids were small (small back seats)..soft top for the summer / hard top for the winter..
6:- ok, more for the girlies.....Essex Girls Ford Escort Cabrio`s....lol
wifey had a nice blue XR3i cabrio for a few years, No. 2 daughter still has a "Karman" cabrio, power hood / steering and stereo system...girls eh...
No. 1 daughter has a motorway storming Opel / Vauxhall Omega 3.2 top of the jobby machine, and loves it to bits.....nice car though - typically German engineering...big-brutish- but well does the job in comfort, quietness and style.

SO, relive the days gone by, by all means, but like my family, make sure you belong to the A A or R A C.........very - very nice men when you need them.

AND, like the old sign says..............

The Esso sign means happy motoring, the Esso sign means happy motoring,
the Esso sign means happy motoring, call at the Esso sign.......ha..ha..ha..
_________________
Hear no Evil, Speak no Evil,
....... listen to no Devil......

WE NEED LEADERS THAT LEAD,
...NOT LEADERS BEING LED...

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